FIRST, I embrace monotheism for my capacity to reason (God bless Abraham). I also selectively accept religion. All of them.
The post’s picture is that of St. Thomas Aquinas. He’s a smart one.
From Twitter (The TOC Is A List Of Questions)
Contents
What do you mean exactly by ‘absolute truth’? Absolute truth exists in things such as a colour that everyone sees as the same, or that we all die.
Atheist
All that is reality. It is almost always different than what we think we know. Our senses do not provide a complete picture. Therefore, our mind is incomplete. Because our mind (understanding) is incomplete, our subjective truths are often in error.
B (me)
That’s where the scientific method can be used to aid us. It’s not perfect but it helps.
Atheist
The scientific method is one part of reason. Truth is established when a hypothesis (scientific method) meets both the necessary and sufficient conditions. Note especially that the proposed hypotheses must be disprovable.
https://server.learningframework.com/?p=11288
B (me)
Are you suggesting that all of reality is objective truth?
Atheist
No. Reality is absolute truth. A proposed hypothesis is subjective truth. Objective truth is discovered (using the scientific method) when all but one hypothesis are disproved. The surviving hypothesis is objective truth.
Since our minds are limited to what we already know, our understanding of reality is limited. To keep an open mind (be reasonable), a person must never claim to know absolute truth. The best answer we get is objective truth.
B (me)
That seems to make sense. Absolute truth = objective truth?
Atheist
Well, to maintain your capacity to reason (an open mind), no. But sometimes, objective truth is absolute truth.
B (me)
What’s the difference between the two?
Atheist
Sometimes nothing. Philosophically, everything.
Interestingly, the 4 quadrants of truth help illustrate and prove the existence of free will.
https://server.learningframework.com/?p=16505
B (me)
When is objective truth not the same as absolute truth?
Atheist
Philosophically always.
Humans must look at objective truth this way in order to keep an open mind. Often, that open mind rewards your understanding of life with new insights.
Sometimes objective truth is absolute truth. But only the creator knows that.
B (me)
Free will could exist unless you believe in destiny or something similar.
Atheist
I don’t know what you mean. “Free will could exist unless you believe in destiny or something similar.” You operate in habit mostly. So free will is actually free won’t, i.e., you halt habit momentarily. Then you go learn something new.
With new habits, you do something new.
B (me)
How do you know a creator exists?
Atheist
This might be a shock to the faithful, but a belief in God is NOT key to civilization.
Instead, a belief in objective reality is key to civilization.
Critically, no person can claim to know (absolutely) objective reality (absolute truth).
Because there is creation, I think it is reasonable to hypothesize there is a creator. But reason is the wrong tool here. It will produce no resolution.
A belief in God can only arise with faith. And your faith is personal.
B (me)
People have the free will to do different things. Life could be compared to energy in the way that energy tries to find the easiest way to travel. Life could be seen to find easier ways to accomplish various things.
Atheist
Interestingly, that’s what the term free will suggests. But evidence and logic suggest otherwise.
You really should read my post:
https://server.learningframework.com/?p=16505
B (me)
Does the term ‘free-don’t refer to people’s habits and the struggle to freely decide to not do some?
Atheist
Free won’t. I hope I didn’t say “don’t.”
Free won’t is a decision to halt habit. Then, you begin reason. But reason is NOT the capacity to make another decision. It is the search for understanding.
All decision-making happens in habit using what you already know.
B (me)
I see no credible evidence or reason to believe a God exists. Why is a god needed for absolute truth?
Atheist
God is not “needed.” I think this is a problem with religion. Religion put God over humanity as the authoritarian. This tends to make the faithful pleasers and the doubters rebels.
Neither is good.
Creation should be the focus.
B (me)
Then why claim one does or believe one does if there’s no method to demonstrate its existence?
Atheist
Because humans can tend to think they know what’s best for life. But that is their life (small picture).
Placing a perfect designer over creation, and reminding oneself of that perfection, tends to cause the individual to look for the bigger picture.
For example, something does not work out as you think it should. If you imagine that whatever happened is perfect (in God’s larger plan), then you FORCE yourself to ask why.
Reason begins.
B (me)
If something doesn’t work then why not use reason to find out why without having to pretend everything is perfect from a god first?
Atheist
This is the important point.
Because our habit brains tend to think they have all the facts. All the data. The big picture.
We don’t. It helps me to contemplate that an entity with a much larger view does.
Otherwise, humans slowly get trapped in their habit brains.
B (me)
Are you suggesting that it’s a good thing to invent something and claim it’s real to control the behavior of people?
Atheist
No.
As I have said before. I call it absolute truth too. I (my subjective truth) also think of it as creation. I call it reality too. That’s not a perfect word either.
Creation is a subjective truth.
B (me)
Sure, I just don’t see the need to refer to our reality as ‘creation’ due to its religious implications and lack of demonstrable evidence to support the claim.
Atheist
Yes, it does have divine implications.
I always label absolute truth as absolute truth. I use the word creation because many do not know what absolute truth means.
I tend to use them together.
B (me)
Can you only reason when you stop doing habitual behaviors?
Atheist
Yup. Habit executes. It’s fast. It multitasks. It decides.
Reason is used to understand.
New understandings get added to habit. Then, new decisions can be made.
B (me)
Why claim a perfect creator exists to get people to look at the bigger picture when there’s no evidence of a creator?
Atheist
That’s backwards for me.
I assume, always, that if something does not work out the way I want, I don’t understand; that there is always a bigger picture, and that I need to begin looking for it–free won’t.
Truth can’t be random. A big picture creator, for me, holds the space.
B (me)
“our habit brains tend to think they have all the facts. All the data. The big picture.” Maybe for some but not all people.
“We don’t. It helps me to contemplate that an entity with a much larger view does.”
That sounds similar as claiming dark matter exists to fix equations.
Atheist
‘ “our habit brains tend to think they have all the facts. All the data. The big picture.” Maybe for some but not all people.’
In decision-making, all people do. People use what they know.
If they think they don’t have all the facts, they applied free won’t.
B (me)
Can’t one use reason to determine why they continue their habits?
Atheist
Yes. In reason, they will.
But most people are not self-aware. They cannot escape habit.
People think free will is the freedom to decide. When they think that way they are using their decision-making system (habit).
This is why most philosophers cannot find free will.
B (me)
I can see how habits can be seen as not using logic per-say because it doesn’t take any kind of reasoning to repeat an action you know the outcome. If God exists, knows everything, could it be said that God doesn’t have free will, is unable to use reason because God knows all?
Atheist
Oh no. Habit includes logic. Habit is everything you know or think you know. It is everything you have been taught. It is your existing programming.
RE God. The creator knows all for this reality. I have no idea what the creator’s reality is.
My atheist friend. This was an excellent question. I love those that think.
B (me)
Would it be impossible for God to use reason since God is supposed to know everything and you can only reason when you break your habits which include what you already know?
Atheist
RE Free will/Reason of God:
(1) If God exists, unprovable, God, as a supernatural entity, would exist in a different reality. I do not know what it means to know anything in that reality.
(2) Free will is not about decision-making. Free will is actually free won’t. Free won’t is the momentary cessation of decision-making (your sole free will decision). In reason, you, as a human, are off to learn something new. God already knows everything.
(3) Free will is to stop habits. God may not have a biological brain and, therefore, may lack habits. Or, God may not think at all. For example, our brains think without CPUs (computer central processing units). We possess decentralized neural networks.
FINALLY, I don’t like to dwell on the nature or form of God. God, in spite of religious views, is not an authoritarian If anything, and if God exists, God is a GOAT engineer/designer. To make the most of our reality, we need to spend all our time understanding its design (in reason).
