For Truth Discovery: Are You God-Centered, Bible-Centered, or Un-Centered (in other words, Self-Centered)?
Previously, I wrote about how reason can bring atheists and theists together. Sure, these two groups come together reluctantly, but reason is the inescapable vanishing point for human intellectualism. If individuals want to declare they are rational (all do), they have little choice but to tolerate the logic of my arguments. Convergence, therefore, is a rational possibility. I confidently say this because I have directly experienced it.
Without reason, theists and atheists stay safely quarantined in their respective but adversarial camps. Yet, from a civilizational perspective, how is this helpful? As I see it, in their belief systems, both are “irrational,” though one is pathologically so. Theists see the bible as absolutely true, while atheists see no evidence for God. The former are irrational; the latter are dysrational (pathologically irrational). Therefore, without reason, there can be no meeting of the minds.
The following conversation with a good and valued friend (a fundamentalist Christian) demonstrates the challenge. In addition, I chat with atheists on Twitter (X). I like them very much too. They are also smart. Still, they are dysrational and unable to contemplate objective truth. However, they are not illogical. So, atheists remain receptive to compelling arguments. In other words, arguments arising from reason (not faith). The faithful, however, cannot make those arguments because they rely exclusively on faith. And that’s the problem.
Here’s my point: reason is THE ONLY path. Without reason, civilization ends. Now, endeavor to see how others (both atheists and theists) see it.
The following dialogue stems from a conversation I had with an old friend from the Navy. He is a fundamental Christian. I find his opinion both helpful and insightful. The conversation began with my argument that the Bible must not be declared the “revealed word of God.” He objects.
As a fundamentalist, my belief is that the Bible is God’s revealed word. It is not complete, but I could argue sufficient. We are blessed with intellect and I believe that we dishonor God when we fail to use it. The Bible is a foundation of truth, but we must use it as a tool for betterment. Here is an example. Once, during a sermon the pastor insisted there could not be alien life because the Bible did not say they exist explicitly. How stupid. Let’s talk about how Cain had children after he was banished from the garden. We must use our intellect as more information is presented to us. That is not blasphemy. It is blasphemy to not use the gifts that we were provided.
Arthur Royce
ME:
I spend many hours on Twitter (X) engaging Christians and atheists. Many of the Christians are specifically on Twitter (X) specifically to proselytize. I think it is all good. It is a chance to see where everyone stands.
Nevertheless, the arguments (both sides) are poor. Usually, they repeat the positions of others and generally, these positions are not provable/disprovable.
So here’s the problem. If Christians can declare that they are right because the Bible is God’s word revealed, there is no room for debate. If atheists persistently declare that there is no evidence for God. Where can we go?
Yet, I can usually end the debate because I will say something like the following:
If You Can Accept, Momentarily, That The Life and Times of Jesus Is Neither Absolutely True Nor False, You Might Then Come to See How, for Western Civilization, It Is Necessarily True
Then, I make the argument for why Jesus is/was necessary.
Does it really matter if Jesus was real if everyone can come to see that Jesus was/is necessary? You see, I think the former position is unhelpful if it prevents some from seeing the truth of the latter.
The Roman record proves the existence of Jesus. Was he God incarnate? That is a matter of faith. Look at the world without Him. Here we are.
Arthur Royce
ME:
But you also have a written record establishing that Jesus is God. No need to rely on faith. It is the New Testament. In fact, the Bible is an affidavit from God (says Jesus)–that is, if you already accept that the Bible is God’s word revealed. In other words, for Christians, this is their original article of faith. The rest is easy once the Bible becomes the source of absolute truth (in theory).
I argue, of course, that the Bible shouldn’t be and cannot be absolute truth. Otherwise, people focus on the Bible (thereby becoming Biblically-centered instead of God-centered). Individual growth to reason (Grace) can be this way undone.
In my view, Roman records and the Bible are the same. Specifically, they are mere evidence and not proof. Moreover, absolute proof is NOT achievable in reason. To prove, one must meet the sufficient condition. The sufficient condition requires disproof of the UNKNOWN (and other) hypotheses. The UNKNOWN hypothesis is a placeholder for absolute truth–God’s truth. So you see, making the Bible absolute truth may sabotage the developmental pursuit of God’s truth.
I see so much of the Bible as key to humanity’s cognitive development. But I can make those arguments using reason.
People need some truth basis. It seems a lot of people consider their truth basis from the television…which changes daily.
Arthur Royce
ME:
I know. Some people do. I write about reason (critical thinking) to change that. They are dangerously vulnerable to propaganda this way.
I say, for reason, tolerate only objective (truth where all but one known hypothesis is disproven). SEE IMAGE. People may operate with objective truth. However, there is always the UNKNOWN hypothesis for absolute truth. SEE IMAGE. Those who acknowledge the UNKNOWN hypothesis enjoy Grace.
Grace is how humans can respect absolute truth (the UNKNOWN hypothesis) while ACKNOWLEDGING they can never claim to possess it.
According to Catholic theology, God offers a gift of love, known as divine grace, to all of humanity. This gift of divine grace is the gift of redemption and forgiveness of sins from God [errors from absolute/God’s truth] that is offered to everyone who decides to acknowledge and accept it [absolute truth]. Grace is central to the lived experience of many Christians.
Foundational question: Why do some people believe atheism is more scientific than Christianity?
Theism is irrational. But, then again, so is atheism.
Both positions are taken as a matter of faith, which is, ipso facto, irrational.
The problem is that theists (in Christianity) become Bible-centered (i.e., accepting as absolutely true that their understanding of the Bible is the revealed word of God). This is more irrationality. If Grace is not pursued, theists become dysrational.
But atheists are apparently unaware of objective truth (God-centered thinking–or that reality is ordered). This is irrationality, too, delivering dysrationality too.